I have the LED outputs configured now for the 7 segment display. Either they are correct or they are reversed and I will find out which soon enough.
I'm working on the shift input patterns, to be followed by the shift output patterns. Need to do a bit more reading but my impression is that the SIP is taken from the shifter switches. I can get most of the SOP from the solenoid truth table, then need to configure solenoid frequency and such. I'll work my way through it and ask for help when I need it, this may take me a few days. Still plenty to do.
Jim
AA80E 8-speed
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Jim Blackwood
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:52 am
Re: AA80E 8-speed
OK, I do have a question for this already. Shifter Inputs:
Considering that I only have positions PRND available on the shifter and on the switches for the shifter, can I turn off the patterns for the drive gear positions 1 through 8? They aren't needed or used, right? If they are not greyed out does that mean a pattern needs to be entered, because I have no idea what that pattern would be.
Jim
Considering that I only have positions PRND available on the shifter and on the switches for the shifter, can I turn off the patterns for the drive gear positions 1 through 8? They aren't needed or used, right? If they are not greyed out does that mean a pattern needs to be entered, because I have no idea what that pattern would be.
Jim
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Bernard Fife
- Posts: 1696
- Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:28 pm
Re: AA80E 8-speed
Jim,Considering that I only have positions PRND available on the shifter and on the switches for the shifter, can I turn off the patterns for the drive gear positions 1 through 8?
Yes, you can make them all the same, and any pattern that isn't the same as the PNRD patterns.
The positions should only show up to the number of gears you have (with the rest greyed out), so I will fix this in the next INI release.
Lance.
"Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Jim Blackwood
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:52 am
Re: AA80E 8-speed
OK thanks. It probably is correct, I do have 8 speeds and it shows 8 gears. But the shifter only goes to Drive, I suppose that equates to 8th gear. I believe the circuits are grounded to activate, if that sends the port input high then I could enter a low for all three switches in the first 7 gears and it should not be possible to have a confusing input then because that would never happen. Or I could send them all high, it seems that might work more reliably as the chances of all three switches being closed seems more remote than all three being open. Then it should only be possible to have indications for P/N, R and 8 or drive.
Anyway I'll work on sorting that out.
Jim
Anyway I'll work on sorting that out.
Jim
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Bernard Fife
- Posts: 1696
- Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:28 pm
Re: AA80E 8-speed
Jim,
Grounding the inputs sends them low, not high, but otherwise what you say is correct.
Two things, though:
1) With the current code, PNR *must* be selected by the shifter mechanically. Most transmissions (all that am aware of) work this way; it's a safety and limp-home feature. The code could be altered to allow the electronic selection of PNR, but there has been no call for this so far.
2) Since PNR are selected mechanically with the lever (over-riding any solenoid states), and all of the forward gears can be selected in D (8th in your case), you could even have the lever position configured so that it is always in D (8th). In fact, all code since 5.098 has a setting to force the code to assume the transmission is "Always in Drive", in which case the lever inputs are ignored. There is more on this setting here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=240&start=90#p5011
Lance.
Grounding the inputs sends them low, not high, but otherwise what you say is correct.
Two things, though:
1) With the current code, PNR *must* be selected by the shifter mechanically. Most transmissions (all that am aware of) work this way; it's a safety and limp-home feature. The code could be altered to allow the electronic selection of PNR, but there has been no call for this so far.
2) Since PNR are selected mechanically with the lever (over-riding any solenoid states), and all of the forward gears can be selected in D (8th in your case), you could even have the lever position configured so that it is always in D (8th). In fact, all code since 5.098 has a setting to force the code to assume the transmission is "Always in Drive", in which case the lever inputs are ignored. There is more on this setting here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=240&start=90#p5011
Lance.
"Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Jim Blackwood
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:52 am
Re: AA80E 8-speed
That is a very interesting development and could be very helpful. I had some trouble with the reverse input IIRC, and should probably double check that. If there is still a problem with it I believe that could solve it.
I do know that the AA80E does have limp Home capability and I have been moving the car around the shop that way as well as having driven it down the driveway. I think it may use 3 or 4 forward gears in limp mode, but the diagnostic charts are so complex I don't think I can figure out what exactly is going on there and they do not show a condition for total power loss. Clearly if power is lost you cannot energize a solenoid. Just as clearly the chart shows SL1 energized in gears 1 thru 5. 6th gear is 1:1 plus TC multiplication and I don't think it is starting out in that gear but can't really be sure. It is possible. Maybe it is somewhere else in the material. I've asked the question on Club Lexus and am awaiting a reply.
Very likely the solenoid states for P,N,D (1st),and R are unchanged. Quite certainly they would have to be de-energized for Limp mode but we are showing SL1 energized in P,N and 1st but SL4 and SL energized in Reverse. With this in mind I will re-evaluate what we think we know about the solenoid states. A preliminary analysis indicates we may have errors in the draft solenoid outputs chart, but I do have a pretty detailed analysis of gear changes and am trying to sort it out.
One thing I have gathered already is this: SL and SLU control pressure to the TCC and Brake 2, but one is the pressure control (SLU) and the other (SL) is a 3 way valve that switches between the two devices. B2 is used in R and 1st while TCC is available in 2nd through 8th exclusive of each other.
Therefore, SL must be de-energized in R and 1st to enable limp. Our chart shows it energized in R which would seem to be incorrect.
Whether the SLU output is hydraulically inverted is an open question. If not, B2 would be operating at minimum pressure in limp mode, making 1st and R susceptible to slippage. This might indeed be the case but would not do anything for reliability. However it is possible that the designers considered that an acceptable compromise.
Solenoids SL1,2,3,4,5 and SLU are PWM solenoids that increase pressure with increased pulsewidth.
Solenoid SLT is inverted and reduces pressure with increased pulsewidth. (bleed type Line pressure control)
These 7 solenoids individually set the applied pressure to the 5 clutches and 2 brakes plus the TCC as well as line pressure. Apparently for some reason they wanted direct pressure control plus line pressure control. I don't know why.
SR is a shift trigger which apparently turns on then off again when a shift occurs. Exactly why I do not know. The On period could be in the range of 50-200+ milliseconds. There may or may not be a delay between the change of state of the control solenoids during a shift and actuation of SR, if for example the solenoid states could be 'set' and then the change triggered with SR, but this is pure speculation on my part and I have seen nothing to indicate that it is so, other than the description of "shift trigger" and the fault indication should SR remain in either the on or off state.
Well, that gives me plenty to work on.
Jim
I do know that the AA80E does have limp Home capability and I have been moving the car around the shop that way as well as having driven it down the driveway. I think it may use 3 or 4 forward gears in limp mode, but the diagnostic charts are so complex I don't think I can figure out what exactly is going on there and they do not show a condition for total power loss. Clearly if power is lost you cannot energize a solenoid. Just as clearly the chart shows SL1 energized in gears 1 thru 5. 6th gear is 1:1 plus TC multiplication and I don't think it is starting out in that gear but can't really be sure. It is possible. Maybe it is somewhere else in the material. I've asked the question on Club Lexus and am awaiting a reply.
Very likely the solenoid states for P,N,D (1st),and R are unchanged. Quite certainly they would have to be de-energized for Limp mode but we are showing SL1 energized in P,N and 1st but SL4 and SL energized in Reverse. With this in mind I will re-evaluate what we think we know about the solenoid states. A preliminary analysis indicates we may have errors in the draft solenoid outputs chart, but I do have a pretty detailed analysis of gear changes and am trying to sort it out.
One thing I have gathered already is this: SL and SLU control pressure to the TCC and Brake 2, but one is the pressure control (SLU) and the other (SL) is a 3 way valve that switches between the two devices. B2 is used in R and 1st while TCC is available in 2nd through 8th exclusive of each other.
Therefore, SL must be de-energized in R and 1st to enable limp. Our chart shows it energized in R which would seem to be incorrect.
Whether the SLU output is hydraulically inverted is an open question. If not, B2 would be operating at minimum pressure in limp mode, making 1st and R susceptible to slippage. This might indeed be the case but would not do anything for reliability. However it is possible that the designers considered that an acceptable compromise.
Solenoids SL1,2,3,4,5 and SLU are PWM solenoids that increase pressure with increased pulsewidth.
Solenoid SLT is inverted and reduces pressure with increased pulsewidth. (bleed type Line pressure control)
These 7 solenoids individually set the applied pressure to the 5 clutches and 2 brakes plus the TCC as well as line pressure. Apparently for some reason they wanted direct pressure control plus line pressure control. I don't know why.
SR is a shift trigger which apparently turns on then off again when a shift occurs. Exactly why I do not know. The On period could be in the range of 50-200+ milliseconds. There may or may not be a delay between the change of state of the control solenoids during a shift and actuation of SR, if for example the solenoid states could be 'set' and then the change triggered with SR, but this is pure speculation on my part and I have seen nothing to indicate that it is so, other than the description of "shift trigger" and the fault indication should SR remain in either the on or off state.
Well, that gives me plenty to work on.
Jim
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Bernard Fife
- Posts: 1696
- Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:28 pm
Re: AA80E 8-speed
JIm,
We really should put in parameters to allow the user to specify which shift lever positions are valid (PNR+8th, for example, with the rest ignored). That may not make it into the upcoming code, but I will add it to my list.
Lance.
We really should put in parameters to allow the user to specify which shift lever positions are valid (PNR+8th, for example, with the rest ignored). That may not make it into the upcoming code, but I will add it to my list.
Lance.
"Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Bernard Fife
- Posts: 1696
- Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:28 pm
Re: AA80E 8-speed
Jim,
Attached is a preliminary version of 5.202ti test code (and associated INI). IT HAS NOT BEEN TESTED. I am posting it for you to have a look at while I do the testing.
This code enables spare ports 4 and 5 as outputs.
Spare port 4 is on pin PT6 (normally the Paddle Up input). You enable spare port 4 under 'General Settings -> Standard Inputs/Outputs Configuration -> PT6 (Paddle Up) Usage'. Once you enable spare port 4, you can configure it under the spare ports menu. When you choose to use PT6 as an output, the Paddle Up input changes to the PAD04 line pressure input.
Spare port 5 is on pin PE1 (normally the Table Switching input). You enable spare port 5 under 'General Settings -> Standard Inputs/Outputs Configuration -> PE1 (Table Switching) Usage'. Once you enable spare port 5, you can configure it under the spare ports menu. When you choose to use PE1 as an output, the Table Switching input moves to the PE0 input.
These spare ports (4 & 5) have one PWM percentage for the ON state (not a table), and another PWM% for the OFF state (such as 100% for ON and 0% for OFF). The PWM frequency is user configurable (up to ~2100 Hz).
Appropriate circuits have to be built and connected for the I/O changes, of course. The existing circuits can serve as a guide to this.
As well, this code lets the user specify which shift lever positions are valid under 'Shift Input Patterns -> Valid Gear Shift Lever Positions'. The code will then only look for lever positions the user has set, and ignore anything else (at least it should, and more testing is required, as usual!).
I will get going on test this code and making sure it works as intended. But if you wanted load it or to look through the menus to see if it is what your need, that would be good.
Lance.
Attached is a preliminary version of 5.202ti test code (and associated INI). IT HAS NOT BEEN TESTED. I am posting it for you to have a look at while I do the testing.
This code enables spare ports 4 and 5 as outputs.
Spare port 4 is on pin PT6 (normally the Paddle Up input). You enable spare port 4 under 'General Settings -> Standard Inputs/Outputs Configuration -> PT6 (Paddle Up) Usage'. Once you enable spare port 4, you can configure it under the spare ports menu. When you choose to use PT6 as an output, the Paddle Up input changes to the PAD04 line pressure input.
Spare port 5 is on pin PE1 (normally the Table Switching input). You enable spare port 5 under 'General Settings -> Standard Inputs/Outputs Configuration -> PE1 (Table Switching) Usage'. Once you enable spare port 5, you can configure it under the spare ports menu. When you choose to use PE1 as an output, the Table Switching input moves to the PE0 input.
These spare ports (4 & 5) have one PWM percentage for the ON state (not a table), and another PWM% for the OFF state (such as 100% for ON and 0% for OFF). The PWM frequency is user configurable (up to ~2100 Hz).
Appropriate circuits have to be built and connected for the I/O changes, of course. The existing circuits can serve as a guide to this.
As well, this code lets the user specify which shift lever positions are valid under 'Shift Input Patterns -> Valid Gear Shift Lever Positions'. The code will then only look for lever positions the user has set, and ignore anything else (at least it should, and more testing is required, as usual!).
I will get going on test this code and making sure it works as intended. But if you wanted load it or to look through the menus to see if it is what your need, that would be good.
Lance.
"Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Jim Blackwood
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:52 am
Re: AA80E 8-speed
Thanks Lance, I will load that today and have a look.
Jim
Jim
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Jim Blackwood
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:52 am
Re: AA80E 8-speed
Lance,
I have loaded the code and had a quick look around. Very helpful and nothing really jumps out at me as needing attention yet, though I hope to have a chance this weekend to sit down with the big binder and go through it closely. That could be wishful thinking as I'll be out of town, but if not, I'll get right on it the first of the week. I've got a little more time yet today to look at it. I hope to be ready to start testing with the car on the lift about as soon as you feel ready to give me the OK, but that means I have to finish reviewing all the settings first.
Something that I did notice, and maybe it just has to do with definitions, is under Hardware/Transmission Type, no listing for the AA80E. Don't know if that is important.
Also once we feel comfortable with it, I plan to go back and bring the spreadsheet up to date.
Thanks again,
Jim
I have loaded the code and had a quick look around. Very helpful and nothing really jumps out at me as needing attention yet, though I hope to have a chance this weekend to sit down with the big binder and go through it closely. That could be wishful thinking as I'll be out of town, but if not, I'll get right on it the first of the week. I've got a little more time yet today to look at it. I hope to be ready to start testing with the car on the lift about as soon as you feel ready to give me the OK, but that means I have to finish reviewing all the settings first.
Something that I did notice, and maybe it just has to do with definitions, is under Hardware/Transmission Type, no listing for the AA80E. Don't know if that is important.
Also once we feel comfortable with it, I plan to go back and bring the spreadsheet up to date.
Thanks again,
Jim