Chrysler 41te Trans Control

[tjabo]

Good morning Lance and all,

First of all, I just want to say how exciting it is to have the GPIO board and code nearing functionality for controlling transmissions! Even more exciting for me, and a lot of other guys running relatively high powered Dodge Neons and variants is that I saw over on the old msefi.com board that there was some recognition of the 41te transmission. This transmission is an electronically controlled transverse automatic overdrive based on the Chrysler 604 innards, that has been refined until a high degree of durability and functionality has been attained. It really looks like the future for the sizable Neon crew who are putting down more power than most of the readily available clutches and manual transmissions can reliably handle, especially when the only other (still not as durable and certainly less functional) solution is an old 3-speed automatic.

A couple of guys on Neons.org are currently working on 41te swaps into high powered 1st gen Neons. One of them is Steve Lockett, who has run in the 9s with his street driven (or at least street drivable?) Neon, running a 3-spd automatic he built himself. So far he's liking the potential of the 41te. He's run a bunch of 10s with a stock 41te he threw in the car just to get a baseline with a torque converter that was way too loose for his power level. Also, he seems pleased with the shift speed improvements he's gotten out of some valve body modifications he's been working on, which he's been datalogging through the PCS universal trans controller. Here's a link to page 15 of a thread that has a ton of information about the project:

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f ... &start=350

While the PCS controller seems like it is a very nice product, it is somewhat pricey, and doesn't necessarily fit with the DIY spirit of many of us who are interested in finding a good option for a reasonably priced controller for the 41te that will allow us at the very least to control shift RPM. Many of us are running our engines with MegaSquirt, both MS1Extra and MS2Extra. Obviously I've been pushing for these guys to consider using a MegaShift option, and there is a definite level of interest.

Assuming that there is some interest from you guys who are developing the GPIO trans controller to work toward 41te implementation, I am confident that we will be able to provide most or all of the technical answers that are necessary about the 41te to make the board and code work with the trans. I for one am looking for something to build during the cold winter months in Michigan, so I would potentially be happy to build a board and send it to one of our other guys who either has a trans in his car currently, or who will have one back in the car within days or at the maximum a week or couple of weeks.

I'm going to post a link to this thread in the thread noted above on the Neons.org driveline forum so those guys can start looking over here to check on the status of this project. I think many of them will be interested in pursuing this too, and will be very willing to participate in some productive information exchange.

Thanks in advance as always!

Thad Peterson

[cododgeneon]

Im one that cant wait for this. Im not very smart at building one but im sure we could knock it out


UPDATE PLEASE

[Bernard Fife]

c,

Demanding anything in CAPS is likely to get you ignored on these forums. CAPS is the forum equivalent of SHOUTING.

The latest code is here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20&p=246#p246 (released yesterday). The draft documentation is here: http://www.msgpio.com/manuals/mshift/index.html

Beta testing is on-going, and I will meet with Marc tonight to see where to go next on his 4L60E set-up. Daniel (devojet) is working his way through an install. msgray is building a board for his 4L80E. You can find more info on all of these and more by looking through recent posts.

As I said here (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23&start=0) regarding another transmission, but that also applies to any new transmission that is brought up for discussion (like the 41te), "The inputs and outputs are user configurable in the MShift code, so it's certainly plausible that this trans could be run. What needs to happen is someone familiar with the trans to look at the available inputs and outputs in the MShift/GPIO and see how they match up to the transmissions requirements. If some changes are needed to the way things work to support this trans, we may consider doing this, or may leave it to the user to complete the code changes."

Lance.

[tjabo]

Thanks Lance,

I'll read through those documents in more detail than I have so far, and see if I can start matching up inputs and outputs with what I can get out of the factory service manuals I have for vehicles with 41te's, and for the trans itself (although that one is more of a diagnostic manual, and doesn't seem all that helpful so far).

Also, and more importantly, there are a couple of guys on the Neons.org forums that are veritable automatic trans gurus, and both of them are looking to go into the 41te transmissions. One is Steve Lockett I mentioned above, and the other is Carl Buchbinder (Sp?). Steve is running in the 9s on MS2Extra, and Carl is also in or near the 9s, but on a different ECU, and I think he builds his own trans controllers one-off usually.

Suffice to say though that we have access to the necessary answers to the questions, and there are several people interested in developing this combination. Cododgeneon above is on MS2Extra as well I think.

Lance, I guess I'm not sure, is it the current intent that the code supports CAN communication with the Extra code? MS2 versions only I expect?

Also, I don't know if you saw above, but I'd be interested in building up a Beta version board if that would work with the development plan, since I always seem to be able to make a lot more progress with understanding these things (MS stuff) when I can build it and mess with it. I think in this case being able to build one would help with the process of working out all of the inputs and outputs, etc.

Thanks for the extensive effort you put in on this stuff Lance and others!

Thad

[Bernard Fife]

tjabo,

The CAN support is for B&G MS-II code as a default, but the parameters are in place to support MS2-Extra - last I checked one value (the internal outpc table number) was different between B&G and Extra code (I have not tested this, but I am told it works by those that have tested it).

MS-I does not have native CAN so it would be a major effort to make it work (much more than just buying an MS-II), and I don't know anyone who is trying.

I am out of beta boards I think, but I will look to see if I have any left.

Lance.

[devojet]

All my testing has been with MS2extra. So the Mshift code does work with MS2extra.

[tjabo]

Thanks for the replies guys, and thanks Lance for checking around for a board!

Thad

[cododgeneon]

Demanding anything in CAPS is likely to get you ignored on these forums. CAPS is the forum equivalent of SHOUTING.

I wasnt trying to Shout. Just typing in excitement of this new product and new development


Thad, If I were you I would see if steve would test one out, He can use most of his settings from the PCS controller for the msshift. (well atleast I would think he could)

[Bernard Fife]

Just typing in excitement of this new product and new development

cododgeneon,

Yeah, it's easy to do that. It's also easy to misinterpret that intent, and that's why it's generally frowned on.

I did have one spare beta unit left, so tjabo will get that (since he asked). In digging around, I have one more unassembled kit as well, though I would like to keep that one for my own testing. However, if someone can make a strong case that they can use it, have an application ready to go, and can provide significant testing feedback in the short term, I may give it up.

Lance.

[tjabo]

I just PMed you back Lance, and thank you!

Cododge, I agree 100% with your thought on it, and I'll contact Steve to see if he's interested. If not, I'm sure we can find someone like you or Carl to give it some development love.

Thad